“The following,” says the New York Evening Post, “is an accurate report of a conversation which took place at a private residence in this city, between Mrs. Hatch and a company of ten or a dozen invited guests. None of the questions had been previously submitted to Mrs. Hatch, and to each her reply was prompt and unhesitating. The answers are as remarkable as anything in the way of theological speculation that has recently come under our notice. The sitting occupied an hour and ten minutes.”

1 Question.— Is there any necessary relation between disease and sin? and if not, what is signified by our Savior’s reply to certain of the Scribes when they murmured that he blasphemed —  “Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts? for whether it is easier to say, ‘Thy sins be forgiven thee,’ or to say, ‘Arise and walk.’ — ‘And again, in reply to the messengers of John, who came to inquire if he was the one that should come, or do we look for another, viz.: “Go, and show John again those things which ye do see and hear: the blind receive their sight, and the lame do walk; the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear; the dead are raised, and the poor have the gospel preached unto them.” And if there is any such relation, does it exist after death?  and do the spirits know disease and recovery?

1 MRS. Hatch.— Sin, in the usual signification of the term, implies the violation of a law. It has been applied, however, entirely to moral or intellectual laws; to the violation of those laws which apply to the soul. As the soul has been said to be a distinct and positive formation, distinct from the physical formation, as its existence has not been considered as being a part of the body, or of the life of the body, sin has been thought to have no influence upon the external man. But any law which produces an effect upon man’s physical system must, in its primitive source, be from the soul. Why? Because man’s soul, in its identity, in its essence, and in its formation, outworks, aggregates, assimilates external substances, until you behold the form of man. The external form is the growth of the spirit. The nature of the spirit unfolds the form of the body. The body simply gives place, expands, unfolds, that the processes of identity may become more effectually developed and made manifest.

Sin, therefore, as such—not being a positive element, but an ignorance of the laws of Nature—may be defined as either physical or mental, and in either case it applies to the soul; for all physical diseases, when traced to their ultimate source, proceed from a lack of unfoldment in the spirit.  Disease is a want of proper action in some portion of the system, and this must tend to produce an increased or superabundant action in other parts, which is inflammation. This must proceed from a want of knowledge of the laws of health and of Nature; for, were they well understood, they would never be violated: consequently, it proceeds from a want of unfolding of the intellect or soul — a want of action of the soul. Therefore, in the text of scripture quoted—“For whether it is easier to say, ‘ Thy sins be forgiven thee,’ or to say, ‘Arise and walk’” —whether the soul or the body is made whole, it matters not, for the disease of both arises from the mind.

You ask, then, if the relations of sin and disease apply to the spirit in its future existence, and if the spirit knows disease and recovery. We answer, it does. Disease is the want of action in some portions of the system, and an excess of action in other portions, as we have defined it. As that is true of the external form, so it is true of the spiritual. There is a want or an excess in the capacity of the spirit in the brain, and it operates upon the spirit as disease and recovery. When the spirit acquires a knowledge of the laws which govern its nature—when an equilibrium is produced in its faculties, in the spiritual world, through the manifestations of the unfolding of the soul, in the intelligent and identified spirit—then there is no more disease.

Consequently, spirits do know diseases — not of the body, for that is left behind— but disease in the faculties of their own nature, as it is for ever improving, not growing, but always unfolding to higher and more perfect forms of existence.
 
 

2 Question.—Is the soul, or, in other words, that which animates the form, and is the man — is it an absolute, independent entity, or is it the result of organization?

2 MRS. Hatch.—It is an absolute, independent entity.
 
 

3 Question.— How is it, then, that qualities of the soul are inherited, so that a race of men have a certain resemblance?

3 MRS. Hatch.—Qualities of the soul are not inherited, except from Deity. Qualities of the manifestation or combination of the soul — of that which has an external form—are always inherited, inasmuch as the soul becomes identified and outwrought through generations and nations, in its external essences. But the soul, as such, in its distinct and positive essence, inherits nothing except from Deity. The manifestations of identity in external forms, and in developments of combinations and modes of thought as witnessed in nations and generations of the families of men, are the result of the conditions of external life; and of the unfoldings of the spirit; and as no two men in the world are alike in external form, so no two souls are unfolded in the same manner, but are differently combined and outwrought. For instance, to illustrate by a familiar theory in Nature: in chemistry, the primaries of all substances are alike, but not their combinations in any form of existence. You perceive a different unfoldment, a different aggregation, a constant variety in the external; and the same differences, the same variety, exist in the internal essences, the combinations of spirit and soul. Therefore, it is not the soul in essence that is changed, but the capacities of the soul as wrought forth from the external. The difference is in the intellect.
 
 

4 Question.—Then is there any radical or inherent difference between the soul of one of the most degraded of the human race — as, for instance, that of the Bushman — and that of one of the white or Caucasian race?

4 MRS. Hatch.—None in the inherent elements of the soul, else education or unfoldment could not produce their effect— could not draw out the higher manifestations of the soul. Were there a difference of species, an essential difference in the elements within, they could not become assimilated through educational means, through the processes of unfoldment by which external knowledge is acquired, and the soul become unfolded to the highest capacity which man conceives. Consequently, the soul of the Bushman is radically identical with that of the Caucasian or any human soul. All souls proceed from one Primal Source.
 
 

5 Question.—In regard to the Bushman, I do not know as there is any evidence of their having been cultivated at all. The Bushman is about the lowest race of men known.

5 MRS. Hatch.—But wherever there is a spark of intelligence manifesting itself in the form of reason and judgment, there is a soul. If the Bushman has not that reason and judgment, he is not a man; he has not a human soul. Many of the animals manifest the capacity of humanity to a certain degree, each animal in its own sphere, but none of them have the combined faculties of reason and judgment.
 
 

6 Question.—May we infer that the spiritual endowment in the lowest order of the human race, as the Bushman, is the same as in other races?

6 MRS. Hatch.—You may infer this from what we say, that the essences which make man an individuality, a soul—the essences which make man the child of his Father — these essences are alike wherever you find them. Whether in the Hindoo, the Hottentot, or the Bushman, in the lowest form of intelligence, if that crowning stone of the arch reason is there, you will find a human and an immortal soul. But as we expressed the idea of differences of formation and development, of course the unfoldment of the soul of the Bushman requires a longer period of time, perhaps extending through generations. Greater changes, greater aggregations and segregations of thought and feeling, so to speak, manifested through the external, are required for the assimilation of their forms of existence to that of the more favorably disposed and developed races. But with the nature of the spiritual essences this has nothing to do. The spirit being from God, must be perfect.
 
 

7 Question.—Where does soul, that crowning arch, begin in the creation?

7 MRS. Hatch.—It begins with man. The “connecting link,” as it is termed by scientific men, between the animal and human creations, or between reason and instinct, we have not clearly defined, neither do we suppose it to be susceptible of definition. But this we assert, that in the Bushman, or the lower order of the human species, wherever found, the essentials of individual identity become perfect; that wherever you find a susceptibility of unfoldment, there the individuality of spirit commences; and if there is no such susceptibility in the Bushman—if he is not capable of attaining to the higher forms of intelligence—then he is not immortal.
 
 

8 Question.—Does the development of the soul depend upon human instruction?

8 MRS. Hatch.—The development of the soul, in its interior and positive essence, does not depend upon human instruction; but the circumstances of its identity in the external life do, in a great measure, depend upon human instruction. For instance, the soul, unless it perceives intuitively its essence and objects, is not susceptible of being educated into them. Unless there is an intuitive fountain of knowledge, human instruction can not supply it. If, through education, those higher powers of the spirit of the Bushman are not called forth, it is evident they do not exist; but when, by education, they are called forth, it is also evident that they existed in the soul, and only external cultivation was required to develop them. External education is simply an outward manifestation of the laws and principles inherent in the soul, which is perfect in itself, though undeveloped, being an offshoot or coruscation of the Deity. Therefore it is that the divine intuition is the primal source of man’s knowledge, while external education is only a means of calling it forth.
 

9 Question.—Then, where man begins is where the power of development or intellectual improvement begins?

9 MRS. Hatch.—Yes. For instance, you may cultivate an animal; you may teach it many things which look like intelligence. He will manifest a degree of intelligence, but there is no source of thought. He manifests no originality, except in his sphere; he manifests no higher aspirations than belong to his animal instincts, his animal nature. But when an immortal is instructed, you behold originality, aspirations, longings. The fountain will pour. You open the gateway, and the flood will burst forth. That is the true test of soul, and the only test that we have been able to discover.
 
 

10 Question.—Is the existence of the human soul, as it appears in man, the commencement of its existence, or did it, as an entity, exist before it made its appearance in a human form?

10 MRS. Hatch.—We conceive this: that the human soul, as an element, must have existed through all the past eternity, within the boundaries of the Universe; that the individual soul, as an entity, as a positive individuality, never existed until it was manifested in the human form. This manifestation becomes the stepping-stone to consciousness, to individuality, to a conscious immortality. Your soul was as immortal before it entered into the human form as it was after that event; was as perfect in its combination; its destiny was as fully marked out, but not to external consciousness; you had not that identity which attends you as an individual person.

For instance, the spirit perceives not time nor space, but conceives of principles; consequently, the spirit, when identified in the human form, measures, analyzes, unfolds, and perceives things, according to their relative powers. It sees external objects in essence only. The soul knows neither time nor space, as such, only relatively. The ideas are outworked as the soul manifests itself in an external form. But the soul can never go backward; it can never return to its first condition. There is no such thing as retrogression in the Universe what may seem such to you is only the reaction of Nature, in accordance with the divine laws. If your soul had been an entity before its present existence, that entity would be realized by you. In essence, your spirit conceives of a former existence, because it conceives of Deity; because it conceives of a universal concord and harmony; because it soars toward the Light whence it sprung, but not because it conceives of a previous identity.
 
 

11 Question.—What idea, then, ought we to have of the state of a spirit’s existence prior to its assuming the human form?

11 MRS. Hatch.—You ought to have this idea: that the essences of the formation of the human soul have ever existed distinct and positive, but that the time for the ultimation and unfoldment did not occur until the formation of a human life occurred upon the earth; that every conscious thought of the soul is here being outwrought in the forms of earth; that the essences of spirit are continually outwrought, as are the essences and powers of the external Universe ; that there was no great creation of humanity at the commencement, and humanity then allowed to go on in its own development, but that the Fountain of Life is still open and freely flowing; that Deity is still creating from himself souls which are a part of his being; and being created, they are thrown off as are suns, planets, and systems, from a central sun that being once created and thus thrown off, they can and will no more go back again to God than can the star created from the essence of the sun go back to that sun again; but that they must for ever revolve in the orbit prescribed for them, and in the light of the grand centre from which they sprang.
 

12 Question.—Is it possible to specify the time of the creation or formation of things?

12 MRS. Hatch.—It is impossible to form an accurate idea of the time. You may judge somewhat from the teachings of geology, but that is very indefinite. You may analyze, and form conclusions as relates to principle, but not in relation to fact.
 
 

13 Question.—What construction is to be put on the Mosaic record as to the time of the origin of the human race?

13 MRS. Hatch.—That not merely six thousand, but more than six hundred millions of years have elapsed since the formation of the earth, and that the record is the highest inspiration of Moses, or of the person who wrote it. The six days of creation must refer to long periods, eras, or epochs, and are not to be taken in a literal sense. The morning and the evening signifies the beginning and closing of a period, as you speak of the morning and evening of life, without 
referring to the rising and setting of the sun.
 
 

14 Question. — Are we at liberty to suppose that the human race all sprang from a single pair?

14 MRS. Hatch.—You are at liberty to suppose what you will; we are not at liberty to express any decision in regard to positive facts. We suppose that each nation, each country throughout the whole world, had its Adam and Eve, and that is wherein nations differ in externals and in combinations of soul, but not in essences.
 

15 Question. — What, then, becomes of the theory of the fall of man through Adam?

15 MRS. Hatch.—Probably the partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, and the consequent “fall,” as you express it, is a part of the experience of all nations.
 
 

16 Question.—Are all mankind to be condemned for the offence of one?

16 MRS. Hatch.—All mankind are made from the same essences, and it is supposed would follow the same laws. - All nations would, therefore, partake of the tree of knowledge in the earlier ages of their development; and it is reasonable to suppose that the consequences would be similar, if not the same; and that the “fall” would ensue from the principle of materialism growing out of the desire for knowledge. But, strictly and philosophically speaking, there is no such thing as man’s ever falling, for that which is truly wise and good can never become less so. There may be temporary angularities or digressions, which to the finite comprehension may appear evil, but to the Infinite are only means of working out a higher good.  Had man been contented in his primeval state, or in the garden of Eden, he could not have been tempted; but his longings for a higher condition led to experiments, and thus he partook of the tree of knowledge, which is not death, but life. You find that knowledge proves fatal to ignorance, and in this sense our first parents may have died, but not to moral and intellectual worth. It was a death to a lower condition, but a birth to a higher; as the throwing off the external form is a death to the body, but a life to the spirit.
 
 

17 Question.—How comes it that every nation, having any traditional history, has a tradition of the deluge, generally agreeing with that related in the Old Testament? Was the deluge universal?

17 MRS. Hatch.—Our ideas are simply these: According to scientific revealments, it would be impossible for the whole surface of the earth to he covered with water to the depth related of the deluge. It must refer to a principle or power, as did the fall of man—a deluge which swept away all principles of evil, leaving only a principle called “Noah.” Or it may refer to the people of a country—a local deluge. These are our suppositions, and we base them in both cases upon the law of Nature. We do not suppose that a literal Adam and Eve stood in a literal garden of Eden, and were tempted by a literal serpent, or devil, to eat a literal apple. We suppose that mankind were simple and innocent in their unfoldment; that they worshipped Deity according to that innocence and simplicity; that when the “tree of knowledge,” or man’s desire of knowledge, sprang up within them, they partook of the fruit—they sought for knowledge. Consequently, there must then be a “fall” (or more properly a reaction, for a fall implies a retrogression, which is impossible) from that highest state of purity then prevailing, and from that to a deluge of materialism sweeping over them. The deluge, coming as a destruction of evil elements, must refer as much to principle as the apple and the fall of man. The highest mountains may refer to pride and ambition; the lowest vales to ignorance and mental darkness; the idea of Noah building the ark, to the safeguard of principle, to men’s trust, confidence, security, in those primitive elements of Divine Truth and wisdom. It is stated that the highest mountains were covered. If these mountains were as high as they now are, it would be impossible for a deluge to cover them. Perhaps, as indicated by deposits of shells, the whole earth has at some time been under water; but we would imagine the mountains to have been carried under the water, rather than the water over them. Earthquakes and great convulsions of Nature may have thrown them up.

In the earlier development of language, figures were used to represent ideas; but the meaning was not always positively expressed. Consequently, it is not to be supposed that translations of their ancient records should be literally made, and that mountains, rivers, valleys, trees, apples, and gardens of Eden, should be taken as absolute existences and particular localities. It is quite reasonable to suppose that these things refer to principles.
 
 

18 Question.—Then what are we to infer from the universality of the tradition of a deluge?

18 MRS. Hatch.—The undeveloped condition of man was then similar throughout the world, as now the civilization and intelligence of the nineteenth century pervades all countries. The same ideas are now springing up in Europe and America, and are travelling to the most distant lands. This proves that the development of thought, of feeling, of revealment, is everywhere the same. And if Deity has made a spiritual principle, which you may denominate the deluge, which washed away the evil principles of all nations, may not the manner of representing that principle have spread to all the nations, or sprung up and been adopted in each nation, as there was an Adam and Eve for each nation, and the revealments of science and art harmonize in all countries at the present day?
 
 

19 Question.— What is the signification of “the serpent” in the story of Adam and Eve?

19 MRS. Hatch.—The serpent signifies simply the form of the tempter. The serpent has always been looked upon as wily, insinuating, artful, tempting, as the serpent charms, tempts, allures the bird; and it is reasonable to suppose the figure to have been used to express the idea of the tempter, or that which tempts every person, and no more Adam and Eve than every man and woman of the present age. It may represent that which tempts and allures man from childhood to age, leading to the unfolding of his powers. Each of you, in your experience, find a time when this tempter approaches you; and you partake, or strive to partake, of the fruit of the tree of knowledge, and are never satisfied. Without that tempter, where would be the revelations of art and science? Where would be even the divine revelations of Jesus of Nazareth, who came after the deluge to purify and enlighten the nations of the earth?
 
 

20 Question.—Taking into consideration the subsequent developments of mankind, their progress in the arts and sciences and in all knowledge, should we not interpret what is called the “fall” rather as an elevation?

20 MRS. Hatch.—Most certainly. As a reaction from the primitive unfoldment, it was progress. Everything opposite is called a fall, but in the great and general principles of Nature it is an unfoldmnent. There is no such thing as falling or as retrogression; for, if there were, then Deity would not reign alone. A fall is only a reaction, such as is visible in all external creations.
 
 

21 Question.—How are we to interpret the accounts of the raising of the dead in the New Testament, that of Lazarus, Jairus’s daughter, etc.?

21 MRS. Hatch.— Lazarus, like Mary and Martha, was an intimate friend and associate of Jesus. It was very natural that when Jesus approached the grave of his friend, he should exclaim, “Lazarus is dead;” but the principles of Nature forbid the idea that, after the spirit has actually departed, the lifeless form can ever be reanimated. Death signifies a want of action, and if there is really death, there can be no resuscitation; but in the records of medical science you have many well authenticated instances of the spirit withdrawing its functions, so that there is an appearance of death, which may be removed by the application of proper medical means to restore animation.  What follows? That Jesus, in the unfoldings of his nature, possessed that power over the elements which medical men obtain by the aid of science, and by means of his psychology or magnetism, as it is called at the present day, which was his power over mind, he recalled the spirit of his friend which had temporarily withdrawn its functions by reason of spiritual inharmony, or what you please. The body is said to have been dead three days; and it is given as the opinion of the writer, or rather of those who went with Jesus to the grave, that decay had already commenced, though it is not asserted positively that such was the case.

None are prepared to say that life might not be recalled, where perfect power exists, except in cases where absolute decay had occurred. Elijah, in the perfection of his unfoldments, might have had the same powers, but not to the same degree. So in this century there have been many instances of persons supposed to be really dead, who have been resuscitated by this same power, this same unfoldment of the power of will in harmony with Nature. In the case of Jairus’s daughter, Jesus himself said that she was not dead, but asleep. Possessing this perfect power, he at once perceived the condition of the woman.
 
 

22 Question.—Then is that power attainable by all men, though in a lesser degree?

22 MRS. Hatch.—Inasmuch as Jesus was the Son of God, he possessed all the elements of manhood, as manifested in the external form; and as in the unfoldment of his natural form, all was in harmony with his spiritual, he was the greatest and most perfect manifestation of the divine manhood that ever existed. But, inasmuch as he was the Son of the same God, manhood in its distinct and positive essence, whether in the form of a man of the nineteenth century or of one of the past ages, may possess the same elements of external combination, and in its unfoldings may manifest and exercise the same or a similar power.
 
 

23 Question.— Why is mediumship, or the interference of a second individual, now required?

23 MRS. Hatch.—This is required, that the spiritual or the divine should be in as immediate connection with Deity, or the source of the spirit, as is the physical in immediate connection with the external world. How many of you are so? Encased in external forms of materialism, inharmony, and imperfection, you do not perceive that divine presence which is everywhere indicated, and which, if you believed and comprehended, you too would possess those powers which were supposed to be miraculous.
 
 

24 Question.—How is it we are told that, on the death of Jesus, power was revealed in a more miraculous manner — that the dead arose from their graves and walked the streets of Jerusalem, where they were seen by living men?

24 MRS. Hatch.—We suppose this may refer to those whom the people believed to be dead, and whom they had seen laid in the tomb. They had no idea of a spirit’s power of manifesting itself; and when they buried a friend, they mourned him as lost, and said, “My friend is in the grave.’’ The spirits of the dead may have been made visible, and they said those they supposed to be dead came out of their graves, as it is a favorite expression of spiritualists, that their departed friends “come from the grave” to hold converse with them; in other words, that the particular individuality appears and manifests itself.

But in answer to your inquiry, we say it was a greater exercise of a divine power. As Jesus was greater, so in the illumination of his presence and the glory of his immortality all within his influence perceived that divine essence, and were enabled to penetrate the veil that separated them from the other world, and see their departed friends thronging around them.
 
 

25 Question.— What is meant by perfection as referring to Christ?

25 MRS. Hatch.—We use the term in this sense: inasmuch as in no manifestation or development of his life was he subjected to any of the inharmonies, diseases, evils, or sins of other men, we call him perfect; because in his divine element he was perfect, as are all men; and because, in the manifestations of that divine element, there was no imperfection, so far as men, in the lapse of eighteen hundred years, have been able to discover. Therefore, in speaking of him relatively, we use the word “perfection.” Nevertheless, the different forms of manifestation are different means of outworking perfection; and you term it progress, but it is only a changing of form.
 
 

26 Question.—What is meant by the sin against the Holy Ghost?

26 MRS. Hatch.—It is said: “If ye sin against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven; but if ye sin against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven, neither in this world nor in the world to come.” We will first explain what is meant by forgiveness. If you injure your brother or your friend, he can forgive you, and you are not to be contented till he has forgiven you, and relieved you of the consequences of having inflicted an injury. The Son of man is supposed to refer to Jesus. You sin against him, perhaps, by refusing to believe in him, though your knowledge, your unfoldment, prompts you to believe he is the Christ. This may be forgiven. But the Holy Ghost is the Divine Spirit of inspiration which comes into every soul, which manifests itself in every individual. It is the intuition which constitutes our direct relation to the Deity, through which it was unfolded. What follows? That if ye sin against that Holy Ghost, that inspiration which comes to you as an individual, that sin has no effect upon any one but yourself; therefore no one can forgive you, and you must abide the consequences of your sin. If you resist the inspiration of your own light and knowledge, you must abide the consequences, for it can not be forgiven, neither in this world nor in the world to come. If you are thereby retarded in your progress, the effect must remain for ever.
 
 

27 Question.—Is there any particular process, or: can any instruction be given of a course to pursue, whereby a man may fit himself for coming in contact with spiritual essences? In other words, how can one become a medium?

27 MRS. Hatch.—We will endeavor to explain the subject briefly: after which we will ask, in consequence of her physical condition, that the medium be excused. Spirits, in their distinct essences, as we have informed you, perceive, comprehend, not by time or external space, but intuitively, the elements of existence; and they outwork, through the means of external form and identity, into the human brain. Probably each one of you, in your experience, has become so interested in your external identity as sometimes to forget the spiritual essence within, and to imagine that the external brain—the intellect—is the “you,” the “myself,” the “I,’’ and have acted and used yourselves upon that principle. But those who are deeply learned in science, and who are constantly studying, not the external mind, but the immortal, Have a different conception of their identity. The materialist proves that spirit, in its development, is a power which governs matter, but he comprehends it only in its external manifestations. So different studies and means of education produce different results upon the minds of men, and the majority of the human race become so much externalized, that they know nothing except by positive, external Proof. What follows? That the spirit of man, in thus becoming exteriorized, requires training to produce anything internal. The mind has been manifested only in the direction of external form, and therefore education is needed to enable it to manifest itself internally. This is the general rule, which we do not intend to apply individually.

You should endeavor to harmonize every faculty, every power, every function of the soul, in exact proportion and relation to each other; endeavor to render them all perfect, as far as you can see any unfoldment and beauty. If you see a tendency in any direction which is injurious to your spiritual welfare, then you should, as reasonable men, withdraw your spirit from that, and direct it into another channel. As reasoning, conscientious men, you should perceive and appreciate your own defects and deformities, and should endeavor to repair them. If you have a tendency to physical debility, you endeavor to check it by suitable remedies; so if your spirit is defective, you should direct your higher faculties to remove that defect. Do this, and you will find that, as by fasting and prayer in ancient days the seers and prophets entered into the spiritual world, so by fasting and prayer you too may become seers and prophets; you too will find yourselves spiritualized as they were. None of you are excluded; you all have the capacity in the divine essence within; and you can unfold it, if you will, by proper culture and direction of your faculties and powers.